Filling up with fuel - SAFETY

On Sunday, just before our ride, I filled up with fuel at the Shell Atterbury where we usually meet.
The petrol attendant refused to fill my bike while I was sitting on it.
He said he was instructed not to fill any bikes while the rider was still on.
At first I was a bit annoyed, but soon realized that it really made sense.
All you needed was him to accidentally spill fuel onto the hot engine and KABOOM !

You simply couldn't get off that bike in time. You would surely get hurt.

Thank-you to the petrol attendant and to SHELL for enforcing this simple safety rule.

I have ridden many,many bikes over many,many years and often sat on the bike while it was being filled.

Makes you think, doesn't it !

Yes... or as it gets full and you bend over to check it all spurts out like an erupting volcano into your eyes

I've wondered before if the engine / exhaust is hot enough to ignite the petrol??? Or does it need an open flame?

In the bikes' operation manual, it does state that one should ensure the bike is switched off and riders be off the bike during fuel filling.

I agree Alun that it is in the Operation Manual.

How many people read that manual and how many people still sit on their bikes while refueling ?

We raced around a gravel track with a offroadish go-cart (with a 500cc Honda engine) when we were kids. It leaked petrol somewhere at the carburettor and I remember the petrol boiling on the engine… Crazy kids!!! Anyway the moral of the story is not how stupid we were as kids but that I doubt that the petrol will ignite from engine heat. But why take the chance?

Oh and in our teens we once looked for a spot on my bike hot enough to light up a sigarette. Didn’t find it…

Sias wrote: I doubt that the petrol will ignite from engine heat.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html

The auto-ignition temperature for gasoline/petrol is 280degC - WAY above any normal engine temperature.
Methanol is 385 C and Benzene/Kerosene/Jetfuel is 560.

The real danger for fire is STATIC ELECTRICITY spark from clothing, etc. or a spark from the bike's electrical system...
(There was a scare about talking on cellphones when filling up, but that has since been disproved.)
Don't forget that inhaling gasoline/petrol vapour is seriously poisonous too - long term exposure to inhaling leaded petrol caused lead poisoning in pump-jockeys.

PS: I saw an instructor in the Navy extinguish a cigarette by dropping it into a can of petrol.

Richard H wrote:PS: I saw an instructor in the Navy extinguish a cigarette by dropping it into a can of petrol.

If heard this and tried it and a sigarette does not ignite petrol! Fancy that...

Hey, so its petrol again!

See my posting(s) of 28 April etc. regarding this topic on the following link:
http://bmwclubs.heavenforum.org/news-f23/solo-rider-1200gs-aux-fuel-solution-t804.htm

In addition to what Richard says above, the big danger is petrol vapour exploding in a contained area.

“Be careful out there!!”

Bulshit - This is nonsense. I always fill up the LT sitting on it. And as Richard said the ignition temp of gasoline is 280c - much higher than any enjin temp. So no somebody got a bee in their bonnet on something they dont know anything about.

I think the key to the whole issue, whether it is inhaling, or getting splashed in your eyes, or even the fuel catching alight ( if that is in fact possible??), just to take care.
I certainly don't want 3rd degree burns if I can help it.
Was just an interesting observation !?
Would love to hear other opinions / feedback from other riders as well.

Appologies for coming across a bit strong - did not mean to offend - if i did. Comes back the attendant not knowing what he is talking about.

No problem. Takes a lot more than that to get me rattled.
The poor petrol attendant was just doing as he was instructed, so couldn't really blame him either. He didn't know any better, just trying to keep his job !
I would just like to do it the safe way - that's all - and possibly inform other bikers at the same time.

So have any of your guys actually measured the temeprature of exhuast recently. Near the engine it exceeds the 280C by far (It might be as high as 800C in certain spots). But that is not actually the danger. The added heat causes increased fuel vapour which can ignite from the smallest liitle spark given by electronics on your bike, celphone etc. The risk of ignition has a low probability but a very high severity if you are on the bike engulfed in flames. In terms of the Occupational Health and Safety Act all risks need to be classified and mitigated.

The people at the Shell garage are only but following the OHS act and doing what the "reasonable man" would have done. In any case the same "clever" people refusing to get of the bike will probably be the first to sue the fuel station in the case where the bike actually just do catch fire.

LT designed in such a way that any run off does not get near the heated bits. Due to the placement of the petrol cap and the tank inlet, as well as the fact that you have to park the bike on its sidestand to fill it up - you will have some difficulty in filling up the LT should you be standing next to it. My 2c worth.

Whatever the reason, I very seldom put in fuel without getting off the bike.
The last time I remember I just topped up with R20 to get to a full refuel stop when I thought I would run out.

If I have my tank bag fitted, it has to go where I'm sitting anyway...!

Petrol is a very flammable substance and we must not underestimate what a little static spark will do to ignite those vapours coming out of the tank when filling up your tank.
It is no big deal to get off you bike while having it filled so play safe get off and save yourself some potential agony. Rather be safe than sorry.
Burns are nasty and take a long time to heal. I know, having spent 17 days in hospital with some serious burns to face and hands while busy recrystallising some chemical from benzene in the chem lab. My sin was that there was a flame about 3m from where I was working.

Below is an extract from an Engen MSDS for 95 octane fuel.

9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Appearance : Liquid.
Colour : Green
Odour : Hydrocarbon
Boiling point : > 30 °C
Flash Point : < -40 °C (ASTM D-56)
Flammability (solid, gas) : NA
Upper Explosion Limit (UEL) : 7.6 %(V)
Lower Explosion Limit (LEL) : 1.4 %(V)
Vapour pressure : 200 hPa
Relative vapour density : 3
Density : 0.783 g/cm3 @ 20 °C (ASTM D-4052)
Partition coefficient, log Kow : > 1
Viscosity, kinematic : < 1 mm2/s @ 40 °C (ASTM D-445)
< 0.1 mm2/s @ 100 °C

I think that it is simply best practice to get off your bike when filling up. It is, however, one of those best practice rules that are not always practiced. Shell Atterbury is the only filling station who refuse to fill my bike while I am sitting on it and although I also get slightly annoyed when they request me to get off, I think it is a good thing and it is after all in the interest of safety. I’d suffer the discomfort of getting off the bike than getting burned on top off it. I can just imagine how one would have wished he/she was not on the bike when it caught alight...

I saw pictures of a bike that burn out while filling up. Those pictures are up at Shell Atterbury for anyone to look at. I know that I for one, do not always get off when filling up but if requested to by the attendant, I will gladly get off. He is after all, taking instructions from his superior who is looking out for our safety as well as the safety of other customers and attendants.