Dimmed or Bright Lights, Foglights or Misligte...

...and then some were lightly rapped over the fingers for daring to discuss the lights issue on the 'Lane splitting' thread.

Hence, herewith the new thread as suggested:

Guys, I strongly agree with Gemmerkat about bright headlights in a group scene. The headlamp on a bike is mainly meant for on-coming traffic as it is seldomly seen in rear-view mirrors, of motorists that is. Why, just because most motorists are ignorant of bikers coming from behind untill they are shaken back into the living world when passing. Sometimes I wonder if these bikers travel faster than the speed of sound as one only notice them when they actually pass you, and then at a ridiculous speed.

Have any of you an idea of the irritation of brightlights in your mirrors during a Sunday Ride that usually takes more than 3 hours? A bright comes and goes (from the front) and is irritatingly evident for a few seconds - as it is meant to be. But for 3h without fail in your mirror in convoy mode. No please, have some mercy! I feel it is (softly said) selfish of some, but then they don't look into their own light to experience the irritation. Do I now have to adjust my mirrors just to accommodate someone not thinking of the others, continuously in front of him/her.

MhondaB, you are explicitly excused from this accusation as your headlamp is rarely observed in bright mode, mostly for a fleeting moment and some for your taillight, then afterwards passing you lighting a cig, waiting for the next opportunity of 'spirited riding'

This brings me to the other real irritation, the foklights or misligte on most 'yuppie' and 'previously disadvantaged now owning a car'-fraternity. No front-facing foglight on any vehicle is to any benefit to the driver in clear darkness - only in fog. Some switch on the parklight with the foklights. Why do they use it? To show off? What is so special about foklights? The front light aren't really the irritation, its those rear ones! Wow, if only roadrage was legal. I would've had a string of scores. Don't they know how it irritates the people riding behind. Nobody driving a vehicle, bike or otherwise is riding blind or not being offended! Assholes!

If ever a vehicle with bright shining foklights at the rear is blinded/irritated from behind by brightlights of a merc-car, merc-truck, Isuzu, Colt, Palio, RT, or G-wagen be sure its me . I hate you all!

I find it distracting when someone is riding behind me on brights (just ask Dorothy - she knows).

Couple of bikes back is ok but two/three bikes behind is distracting.

In a group there is more visibility to motorists so there is not necessarily the need to ride with brights.

It also 'loses' the sweep if others in the group have brights on. The sweeps brights are usually then difficult to see - unless the sweep has a orange light cover of course.

And to the #$%^ driving cars with their rear fog lights on - that is extremely distracting and of no use. If you cannot see normal tail lights on a car then instead of a car you should have a dog and a white stick.

I repeat all I said at:

http://bmwclubs.heavenforum.org/riders-and-riding-techniques-f57/lane-splitting-t129-15.htm

The lead rider in a group also has the role of alerting oncoming traffic to the presence of a group. THAT is why the leader rides with high beam.
Any rider within the group is contributing to the group image of massed lights.
Any rider riding at a faster pace of the group - as in an overtaking situation - needs to be differently visible to the echelon - hence the suggestion to ride with high beam when overtaking...

my only angle up to know was the visibility of the bike to other traffic FROM A SAFETY point of view……….option between dim or bright………bright I think

Two different elements are now brought into the discussion.

- irritation/distraction for the vehicle in front of the “bight” bike; and
- group riding requirements

Effect on the vehicle in front of me

mmh…..have to think about this one for a while. I have never ridden behind myself so I have no idea how bright/irritating/distracting my lights can be. As for a bike/s behind me – can honestly say, with one exception, I have never been irritated or distracted by a bike riding on bright behind me. Maybe the riding position of my bike has something to do with it? As a matter of fact, if anything, I prefer them to be on bright. Make it much easier for me to take note of them. Every so often I signal to the Mermaid that she is not on bright. The one exception was her VFR.....don't know if it was the beam direction or what but it bothered me and about 70% of oncoming traffic if she was riding on bright. Btw that's normally a good indication to me if my lights are troublesome to oncoming traffic.......they are quick to flash

As for a cage I might be approaching from behind………I know they don’t look hence the “I did not see you” syndrome but given the option between dim or bright, I think bright will always have the upper hand in maximizing the chances to be seen by such a vehicle.

Open road group riding

Can only reflect my own experience………..with following distances of 2/300 meter – sometimes longer – I prefer all to be on bright. Find it easier to exercise control over the group as a hole this way. One bike within the group riding on dim seems to “disappear” in bright daylight. For example when overtaking a slow moving truck, I find it much easier to count the bikes passing the truck looking back if all are on bright. The group riding I’m referring to here is a group of maximum 6 riders which does not necessarily warrants a sweep.

bigger groups…….I fully agree on the link between the lead and the sweep and in ideal circumstances the lead always wants to know where the sweep is and one theory is to have him/her ride on bright and all the others on dim. In real world conditions it’s a slightly different story though. A group of twenty bikes can and normally will stretch to about 5 km from 1st to last. No way to distinguish over that distance who’s riding on bright and who’s not. Again I fully agree on the orange light, you can see that light for miles. Now within the group there might be 5/6 riders with the same philosophy on orange lights and the link between the lead and the sweep will automatically be compromised as a result. I’m yet to participate in a group ride where the lead stops because he/she is missing the sweep. As for greater visibility within a group even on dim or if you like group protection…….no question it works. In real world again some big gaps often open between riders which to an extend take away that protection……it might then be better for that rider with the gap in front of him/her to ride on bright? So many possibilities so many permutations………..

and oh yes.....let's assume for now brights are distracting to the rider infront of you and that we want only the lead and sweep to go bright..........spare a thought for the last rider in front of the sweep

Specifically with reference to the club……- and this is a personal opinion.

We have GREAT success in what we are doing at the moment…….nothing wrong and thus no need for fixing anything. Within the broad disciplined way of operating, there is room for all to exercise as he/she sees fit. I can not remember of any of the rides I have been on that a request was made to switch lights to this or the other mode……..by the sound of things there must have been the urge to do so

Long and short, we are here for pleasure and more specific for SHARED RIDING PLEASSURE and methinks that goal is 100% achieved at the moment. I know of clubs where rides are regulated to death which takes away a lot of the “fun” element. The sad consequence of the latter is that a fair few members simply walk away.

Our rules are simple……..

- don’t hit the bike in front of you; (leave enough following distance)
- respect other road users
- no passing on the left;
- ride staggered formation where possible; and
- no 2 wait for the sweep at a change of direction

effective, easy to understand and easy to execute and above all it works – with distinction.


think this is it from me on this topic.........and now I'm tired

When Dorothy and I ride alone, before she had the orange cover, I preferred her to ride on brights. That way I could pick her out in traffic.

Now that she has the orange light cover I can pick her out even easier in traffic - especially if some of the traffic have their lights on.

Now, if she puts her brights on it overshadows the orange and I lose the orange light in my mirrors...

In a group situation I will not ask riders behind me not to switch off brights as they need to be comfortable with their visibility. It may be that as with Sitenies previous bike, it is only some bikes headlight positioning that causes a distracting brighter light in the mirrors.

What I find happens is that because you are leading you tend to check the mirrors more often. Where the distraction occurs for me, is that when I look in the mirror my attention is always drawn to the bright light in the mirror instead of the group behind.

ie - it is not distracting while riding but rather when checking mirrors.