Extreme Silver Award

I had a question put to me regarding the Extreme Rider award – Silver. Technically the same applied to Gold.

The question was:

In order to get the award, does one necessarily have to be a club member at the time of visiting the extreme points? or in other words, someone hypothetically joins the club after having visited 3 of the points. If he/she now adds the 4th point after becoming a member, will he/she qualifies for the award or will it be expected that he/she re-visited the first 3 points in order to qualify for the award.

I had a look at the rules and although it is quite clear that at the time of the application for the award

“The applicant must be a paid-up member of the Club in good standing.”

but, it is not so clear regarding the specific question posed here.

I have my own interpretation and have in fact answered the question but thought it would be best to get some clarification from the Committee as

“the decision to make the award is entirely at the discretion of the committee.”

I have decided to put in on the forum rather than to the Committee directly as others might also like to know the answer.

A no brainer
The applicant must be a paid-up member of the Club in good standing

You have not answered the question…….

A no brainer right as by the time you become an applicant for the award, it is obvious that you have to be a paid –up member as stated above.......but that was not the question was it?

Personally - by the time of the application - regardless of when you did the points.

LeRoy Olivier wrote:Personally - by the time of the application - regardless of when you did the points.

This is an interesting one.

This means that someone can do the four points in their own time - join the club - realise there is a 'extreme rider' award for the four points, hand in his application and photos and the get an extreme rider badge?

I would have thought that you needed to be a club member at the time of doing each of the points.

Guys. As Dave just said:' This is an interesting one'

Before this matter goes too far...

May we refer it to the Committee for a ruling? (In fact it is already receiving attention)

It will take a day or three though...

In any case you are welcome to proceed with the debate. Always interesting

Hmmm.... I can see the "good standing" part can become somewhat a point of debate. I will try my best to behave so I can have a few character witnesses at the time of my 4th point

from

A no brainer......

to

.....by the time of the application....

to

......This is an interesting one......

to

.......you are welcome to proceed with the debate. Always interesting..........

we are making some sort of progress .....or is it not up to us to make progress.

I would have thought the member’s input would be very valuable to the committee........?

I think the letter of the rule is very clear in terms of when an application is actually made - in other words once the 4 points have been achieved. However, there might be grey areas on the “how to get there”

One could argue that 2 of the 4 Silver criteria refer to “the applicant” and by implication an applicant for this purpose is a (must be a) paid-up member

I’m all for keeping it as simple as possible yet fair. Whatever the decision is, just bear in mind that specifically the Alexander Bay and Cape Agulhas points are of such distances from the club’s “traditional home base” that a “quickly do it over” is not always feasible if there are by any chance members that might have done it before becoming a paid-up member.

How about putting a requirement in that for at least 2 of the points, paid-up membership must have been achieved beforehand?

Be it as it may, this is not a trick question nor is there any hidden agenda so no biggie as long as we get some clarification on the question.

I would argue that most people actually get to hear about the Extreme rider award only after joining the club, or learning about it through a club member. This may motivate the person to accomplish the same. Or that person may have already visited one or more of the corners previously. I can see no wrong in letting the person join the club, complete the journey and claim the award.

That being said, is it a matter of "I visited the 4 extreme points of the country as a club member", or is it rather "I managed to complete my journey to the 4 extreme points of the country as a club member"? Perhaps both will do...

I don't think anyone who has gone to Alexander Bay wants to do it again, just because they have to visit all 4 four corners as a paid up club member in good standing.

I still think the "good standing" part can be open for interpretation. Usually around midnight on a club evening, nobody is in good 'standing' anymore

Personally I don't have qualms about someone getting the award for completing a journey as a club member that may have started before that person joined the club. It actually reminds me of a Napoleon Bonaparte quote: "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon."

:hijack on:
This post once again reminded me of a suggestion I want to formally table at the committee. Maybe they read the form and will spare me the effort
Are there any chance of expanding on the awards that is currently on offer?
How about the Big 10 Twisties award, or the Serious 6 Gravel passes award, and so on? Why only have one award in two classes? My 2c.

Sorry about the hijek!
:hijack off:

Marnus wrote:
:hijack on:
This post once again reminded me of a suggestion I want to formally table at the committee. Maybe they read the form and will spare me the effort
Are there any chance of expanding on the awards that is currently on offer?
How about the Big 10 Twisties award, or the Serious 6 Gravel passes award, and so on? Why only have one award in two classes? My 2c.
Sorry about the hijek!
:hijack off:

Just an old member responding incognito...
The Committee welcomes ideas for 'other' awards to challenge our members and to get them out there riding and having fun!
The challenges must be safe, reasonable and achievable.
Control of the tasks and proof of achievement must be simple to manage.
We don't want to have to seal odometers, measure tyre depth, motorcycle mass, fuel cell integrity and other such highly technical stuff.

Also, we must not run foul of Motorsport South Africa, who have control over a number of categories of events in this part of the world.
If you're not talking about measuring elapsed time to do a task, then you're not racing,
but regularity runs with points related to ahead or behind time arguably fall within MSA's area of responsibility.
(BTW, the 21 days of Extreme Gold is not an elapsed time, it is a cut-off time between two classes.
That is why you don't get a fastest finish or record holder in the EG...!)

In the past, we have had suggestions for a GS extreme ride - involving different points not reachable by tar road.
This may include other additional points to visit - North East, North West, South East, South West, Highest altitude, Lowest altitude...
Ferry tours. Verneukpan parkoff.
A very good idea that we shelved for a later date was a Lighthouse Tour, suggested by Izak Geldenhuys
(a previous member who has painted most of them - in watercolours / oils, not Dulux Weatherguard!)


So...Marnus, et al...?
Let's have your ideas - on paper please...!
We'll discuss it with you over a brown bottle or two.

You betcha!

I have been playing with the GS Extreme Award idea for some time now. My thinking so far:

1. Only one award, no time limit.
2. In line with 7 wonders of the world, we pick 7 spots in South Africa, trying to cover the most beautiful spots, not distant rides just for the sake of it - the destination must be GS-worthy.
3. Points I am thinking of so far:
- Sani Pass
- Die Hel
- Baviaanskloof
- Tiffendel
- Somewhere in the Ceder mountains?
- Somewhere in the Limpopo area - Magoebaskloof/Wolkberg?
- ?

Have we not caused enough damage recently with us and them?? Why must there now be a GS award, would that be now better than the existing award or not???

It has nothing to do with us and them? I think 1% of the members get heated about this, the rest of us just yawn and ride our bikes wherever we want to.

There is nothing better about it, which is why I suggest a neutral name and a single award. It is just different, adding to the fun.

Why (lately) must this become the issue every time? If you prefer tar….stick to the tar roads and of you prefer dirt….stick to the dirt roads. Neither one is better than the other. It is simply a matter of preference. Come on! We all like motorbikes, right!? That’s our shared interest and what keeps the club together!

I agree with Richard, that the awards should be there to encourage members to go places they normally would not have gone to...

Richard H wrote:The Committee welcomes ideas for 'other' awards to challenge our members and to get them out there riding and having fun!

Therefore, the more (achievable) awards there are, the better! Then everyone can choose to do the awards they prefer, not making any award better than the other. Great idea!

Moenie stop nie, dit raak nou lekker warm

En ek geniet elke oomblik.

Wonner net wie is daardie 1%

Sias wrote:...... the awards should be there to encourage members to go places they normally would not have gone to...

With the idea of a more dirt road oriented 'award' I think it should be places where the roads to get there are not too technical - that way you will encourage more people who have GS bikes (650, 800 and 1200) to visit these beautiful areas where they would not usually go. eg Hole in the Wall, Coffee Bay where some people visited recently.

A place like Sani Pass, in it's current condition, will not lure many riders who are not good on very rocky roads and the objective should be to encourage as many people as possible to do the various 'points'.

I guess it boils down to the GS Challenge vs. Eco Ride debate.

Maybe we should have a Green, Orange and Red GS Extreme Award (surely the 'Extreme' needs to have some value?)

Green: - 4 specified level 2 ride destinations
Orange: - Green + 2 level 3 ride destinations
Red: - Orange + 2 level 4 ride destinations

Hey, you can even earn your stripes and become a sergeant or something (we don't want officers and gentlemen/women riding a GS do we.. hehe Major BON!?)

Dakardrix - 'extreme' in the current award means the furtherest extemities of the country and not as in difficulty.

DaveS wrote:With the idea of a more dirt road oriented 'award' I think it should be places where the roads to get there are not too technical - that way you will encourage more people who have GS bikes (650, 800 and 1200) to visit these beautiful areas where they would not usually go. eg Hole in the Wall, Coffee Bay where some people visited recently.

I agree with Dave. Maybe I didn’t express myself well enough, but that was wat I was trying to say with

Sias wrote:(achievable) awards

In my opinion the awards should get people excited about exploring this beautiful country of ours on tar or on gravel roads!

ja swaer......

and here I was wondering to myself, what on earth does the man mean by saying

......Before this matter goes too far......

can we please just get an answer to the initial “no brainer” question before another storm starts again.....which I definitely don’t want to be part of........

........ I think 1% of the members get heated about this, the rest of us just yawn and ride our bikes wherever we want to.........

An interesting observation.....not too sure about the number though and one that can certainly work to blanket an opinion in “early infancy” but at this point in time, the “child” is born already. The underlined part is so dead on.

......nothing that is about to be put in writing has not been said before but I really think the SOONER WE RECOGNIZE THE EXTEND OF THE PROBLEM – whether in agreement or not, the sooner we can manage it and move passed it. The “ostrich” way to laugh off the “insignificant minority”, just don’t cut it.

Don’t be fooled or in other words just look, read and listen.......examples of “threatening disharmony” are plenty full since the “Rubicon”.......just read this thread from the first responses........

........over sensitive again? Maybe but remember we are still working “volatile” ground here.

The really sad part is that the single strongest point that I could always offer prospective new members in the past (and I’m on record on this forum doing just that) is that – unlike other clubs – this is one club with no POLITICS and CLICKS.......honestly our experience during the first few years of membership.

Is it still a valid selling argument I can extend staying true to myself?.....sometimes wonder.......

The irony here is, with all our opinions, we are (hopefully) working towards the same goal namely “ Shared riding Pleasure” but it will not take long for a heated debate to ignite simply because we are disrespectful ignorant of the opinions of others that might differ from ours.

Saying I’m praying for a return of harmony would maybe stretching it a tad but one is most definitely looking forward to the day in anticipation.

Let it be noted that this is a “provoked” REACTION and not a – reminiscent of a bullterrier – attempt to stir.............

dakardrix wrote:I guess it boils down to the GS Challenge vs. Eco Ride debate.

Maybe we should have a Green, Orange and Red GS Extreme Award (surely the 'Extreme' needs to have some value?)

Green: - 4 specified level 2 ride destinations
Orange: - Green + 2 level 3 ride destinations
Red: - Orange + 2 level 4 ride destinations

Hey, you can even earn your stripes and become a sergeant or something (we don't want officers and gentlemen/women riding a GS do we.. hehe Major BON!?)

Drix, I agree with you !!! It must be some difficult, but not tooo much. nd you can chose among the awards !!!!
It's the same of the Gold or Silver !
You will be proud if it costs something!!!!
If it is too easy....well ...one more, only!

But, returning to the main issue.....Jamie, you put a very difficult question.....I had the same problem in my group in Brazil....(10.000Km in a same trip) and.........let's waiting the comments!

Btw, Drix...I'm a soldier!!!!!!!

We must probably just keep focussing on our shared interest which is riding motorcycles and respect each member’s different interests within this shared interest. Don’t know if that makes sense at all! Some prefer speed, some prefer cruising, some prefer tar, some prefer dirt, some prefer riding as a pillion, some prefer long distances, some prefer short distances, etc. At least we all prefer riding bikes....in some form or another! That is what should keep us united as one happy club! Let's embrace our diversity within this shared interest!

Exactly.

A club consisting of GS-riders only would be as boring (no pun intended) (and probably dirty – again no pun intended) as a club with road (tar) only riders. Diversity is the spice of life.

Joking with each other is good and welcomed. The dangers lie when the knifes are taken out of the “sheaths” ? aka disrespectfulness in so-called friendly “barneys”

On topic, I feel you should be a club member at the time you visit these points. I think there will be very little cases where people visited these points (and took a photo as required) before knowing of the extreme award. So new members might have been there prior to joining the club, but I believe chances that they have taken photos and everything are slim.