Should we institute a special committee?

Dear members

What do you think about instituting a Special Committee, served by elderly statesmen, to assist the Club Committee with strategic matters such as:

* upholding of the Club’s vision and mission
* strategic changes of the constitution
* clarification from the past
* a mediation role should the Committee find itself in an impasse

Such a committee will not run the day-to-day tasks performed by the current committee.

The name and authority of this committee, if needed, will be decided on once the members' inputs as called for in the poll above, are received.

(AGM to ratify.)

Now THIS is the reason I never wanted to join a bike club before. All I want to do is ride my bike in special places with special friends. Cause it is fun and it is safe.

So yes, I understand we need some structure and organisation to make that happen.

But this is overhead that I can do without. We need less talk and more riding. It's when people spend too much time on the talking side that we start to have issues - let people join the corporate rat race and Toastmasters if they don't have enough meetings and committees in their lives.

Simplify mense, simplify! We're heading the wrong way here - should rather make current committees smaller, not more stuff.

I guess that this will be a very contentious subject. If we’ve strong leadership, that serve the club visions and missions and most importantly the members, I do not see the need additional structures

dakardrix wrote:Now THIS is the reason I never wanted to join a bike club before. All I want to do is ride my bike in special places with special friends. Cause it is fun and it is safe.

So yes, I understand we need some structure and organisation to make that happen.

But this is overhead that I can do without. We need less talk and more riding. It's when people spend too much time on the talking side that we start to have issues - let people join the corporate rat race and Toastmasters if they don't have enough meetings and committees in their lives.

Simplify mense, simplify! We're heading the wrong way here - should rather make current committees smaller, not more stuff.

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please committee members sort you're internal issues on committee level. This is after all a social club, and like Dakardrix said “We need less talk and more riding."

GSing wrote:
This is after all a social club, and like Dakardrix said “We need less talk and more riding."

So what you doing on the internet??? Go ride your bike.

Just because it's your birthday you think you can chirp the odds!!

I know that some of the other clubs have an additional 'committee' that functions as a type of 'elder' group that consists of ex-chairmen of the club.

These 'elders' are used by the club as a 'sounding board' on issues that the committee may be unsure of or feel the need for some advice on.

It could be that in the past the Club has had a similar sitiuation and a previous Club Chairman would be able to advise the committee on how it was dealt with previously.

This would also ensure some consistancy in how the Club is run by the committee if previous chairmen can be approached for for input.

As it stands at present the Club loses a lot of valuable experience and wisdom from past chairman once they leave the committee.

I believe it would be good to have this 'on tap' if and when needed, as long as such a committee is not involved in the everyday running of the club and is only there as a pool of information - sort of something like an 'old boys' club of ex-chairman.

I can understand the need for such a committee in tough times but is it really necessary to formally appoint such a committee. I think these “elders” can be asked for advice as need be without them formally being on a committee. Then one also has the freedom to contact only selected elders for advice which you know has dealt with specific situations in the past.

Ultimately the committee is formally appointed to make decisions on behalf the club members. If the committee is unable to make specific decision, I think it is up to the members to vote!?

Probably does not need to be a committee - but would be good if there was some sort of 'structure' available with all their contact details etc in one place and the ex-chairmen are agreeable of course.

Often lots of info that goes missing over the years - was especially difficult getting info when we were trying to draw up the list of past chairmen that is currently on the clubhouse wall.

Emphatically no - why - we have how many commitees already. If the current commitees and office bearers cannot do what is asked from them - ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????. Enough said. As a last thought - tend to agree with Drix.

Sias wrote:I can understand the need for such a committee in tough times but is it really necessary to formally appoint such a committee. I think these “elders” can be asked for advice as need be without them formally being on a committee. Then one also has the freedom to contact only selected elders for advice which you know has dealt with specific situations in the past.

Ultimately the committee is formally appointed to make decisions on behalf the club members. If the committee is unable to make specific decision, I think it is up to the members to vote!?

Nicely said Sias! I also don't see a need for a committee to manage the committee to manage the members.

Drix, thank you for saying it in a nice way for us that are not so eloquent with words on matters such as these.

Special committee? What's next, a Supreme Committe, Appeal Committee, Constitutional Committee, Scorpions, NSA, CIA, FBI?

If the current structures cannot operate without elders in a special committee, go through the accepted process of nominating and electing the elders into the current committee.

KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid) or kiss my you-know-what

DaveS wrote:Probably does not need to be a committee - but would be good if there was some sort of 'structure' available with all their contact details etc in one place and the ex-chairmen are agreeable of course.

Often lots of info that goes missing over the years - was especially difficult getting info when we were trying to draw up the list of past chairmen that is currently on the clubhouse wall.

True...

I will try and explain this very slowly and clearly:

a) We are a social club with volunteers that serve on the committee. When you have a career you probably do it for about 30 to 40 years. In that time you get a lot of experience and pick up a lot of corporate memory over the years from your elders and mentors. In the club context the average person serves on the committee for about 2 to 3 years. This is not nearly enough time to get the required experience and learn all the corporate memory vested in the club.
b) To expect a person to stay on the committee and do all the dirty work for 10 years plus would be unfair. I believe we all need to play our part in leading this club. Most of our members are professionals and should be able to lead the club. Now if you have new people coming in and taking over with fresh ideas, there must be some mechanism to ensure continuity and to maintain corporate memory.
c) We always had an informal system where we used the elders for consultation to the committee. A fresh new committee with fresh ideas might repeat mistakes made in the past, which could be avoided by just consulting with the elders.
d) Politics only arise where there is uncertainty. By utilising previous experience we can minimise uncertainties and therefore politics.
e) The idea is to at least identify these elders and mentors so that the committee members at least know who these mentors are that are available for help and consultation.


Please take the following in mind:
Our vision is to offer “Shared Riding Pleasure”
Our mission is:
"To foster fellowship, through the safe, supportive and responsible riding and enjoyment of BMW motorcycles, in a courteous manner"
We realise the mission and vision through the 4 C’s
Communication, Companionship, Competency and Clubhouse.

Now I will ask you this question again. Please sit back and think clearly and please do not shoot from the hip. !!!
Now put yourself in the following position:

If you were to serve on the club’s committee would you like to have help in this regard?

Remember not all decisions are clear cut and can be related from the constitution.
So now slowly read the options again and give us your answer.
This is not a question of poor leadership, but rather a simple mechanism to ensure that the committee stays dynamic, without losing the experience.
This poll is also just a way to communicate with club members and test the feeling out there.

I hope you consider this a bit different now and leave the emotions out of it.

Mud Pooh-bah
What you have said/explained really makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for your view.

“experience comes with age, I see on your avatar that you 100”

I will cast my vote!

I'll answer slowly.

We are not a corporate entity (please tell me I'm right) I do not understand why we need a vision and a mission and elders. I do not understand why we need to have a corporate memory. We are passionate bikers who have the club in our hearts, not in our heads. Our purpose is not to grow the club organically and do club take overs and show shareholder profit. All that jargon is SO 90's and noughties'. And so not IN right now, doll.

If you want the updated MBA speak for 2010 and beyond: It is time for the meta-recession revival where people's core values are reprioritised, diversity celebrated and fresh creativity exploited to create a new wealth beyond the cliché'd triple bottomline. We have to rise beyond the corporate culture mess that had its origins in the post-modern greed of the 80's and the collapse of corporate governance, including the demise of common sense and brave, simple and good leadership.

Anyone who needs extra corporate memory to achieve this does not have the new dynamic dream that replaces the static mission and vision that turned out to be a bad Dilbert joke.


So, what I'm saying is that I recognise and agree that people can't lead forever, in addition to having a job and running businesses. We all respect and admire those who serve (especially the Mud-pooh-bear), and have full faith in those who lead to make the right decisions, stand by them - even if mistakes are made, and keep it simple. After all, we are only bikers!

But hey, it's one oke's opinion. And what I really love is to play with my mates and my heavy bike in the dirt! Not waffle like this...

...just to add to it... don't read that we don't support the idea or the leadership - if that is the need and solution you guys identified, go ahead and do it.

I just respond on the fact that you asked us about it. Hope that makes sense!

Hey if all club members felt like this we would live in paradise. Unfortunately this is not the case....

Drix I love your philosophical outlook, it is very dynamic and fresh.

Please inform me what part of our vision and mission you do not agree with. It was drawn up in 2001 and probably needs some updating, if it is felt that it is out of touch with the new generation.

PS - I see at least that we have lot of activity on the forum on a Friday afternoon.

I am off now to go ride my bike.

No, I'm not disagreeing with our mission and vision. That's not the point.

I'm saying the concept of a vision and mission is archaic and companies that are re-inventing themselves with a fresher and updated outlook are starting to realise that strategic leadership need to go beyond their reliance on paper utterings (acknowledging that the Mission and Vision of probably 90% of all organisations mean zip to their employees - ever heard of the Dilbert mission/vision generator?) towards a simple and more powerful 'dream', or whatever you want to call it.

And we're not a company.

I'm not saying change everything - if it ain't broke, don't fix it - I am just explaining why I think and see that a lot of people seem to feel this way when a new committee is mentioned. (Says the guy who at the last Rides Committee meeting recommended a 'sub-committee' - bad choice of words! - to look at safety on our rides... eish)

Drix

I believe we as a club actually live out that vision and mission and that it is not just a mutterings on paper.

Although we are not a company I believe any large group needs some direction otherwise the cart will be pulled into pieces.

PS - Send from my new superfast greenpea syper Ipad installed on my old Adventure

Mud Pooh-bah wrote:Drix

I believe we as a club actually live out that vision and mission and that it is not just a mutterings on paper.

Although we are not a company I believe any large group needs some direction otherwise the cart will be pulled into pieces.

PS - Send from my new superfast greenpea syper Ipad installed on my old Adventure

Gits, jy hou aan om my mis te quote! D i s n i e w a t e k s ê n i e . .

Sien, jy gebruik mismatching tegnologie op jou fiets ook... Blerrie ingenieurs.. gaan seker by die volgende ride met 'n satellietskottel daar aankom...

There is a saying that if the Israelites were led by a committee, they would still be in the desert. I know this oversymplifies the issue, but it does ring some bells if I think back to my "kerkraad" days

I personally think that loosing experience is a sad thing and there should be a mechanism to maintain this expertise. However, if I have to vote on a special committee I would have to vote "No" just because a committee needs some red tape to make it work and this makes any organization clumsy:
- Where does it fit in?
- What authority does it have / not have?
- Who serves on it and how long?
- What happens if the people are not happy with this committee's recommendations?

The current committee must feel that they have full responsibility for this club and what they say goes. In the case where problems arise, the committee has in the past implemented a process whereby a hearing takes place. This hearing is then manned by people chosen. What could be better formalized is perhaps who is chosen to be members of such a hearing. This hearing is then chaired by the Chairman.

In the case where the Chairman is one of the complainants / defenders, a past president should be chosen. This person should be approved by both the parties in the case.

This way we do not have any more committees and the issues can be addressed by just fine-tuning our current polcies and procedures.

I have just got in after riding my bike...
So what's on the forum to read?
what the...

If you are a bunch of 5 or 6 riders that just get together whenever you feel like it and ride, then that's lekker. You don't need committees or rules or constitution or anything. You can just fill up and go off on your Adventure. If you want to do something, you get together (form a committee) over a beer and pizza and decide where to go. If there are costs involved, you put cash into the kitty (pay dues) so that one person (a Treasurer) can pay everything at once and the other okes can just enjoy the ride. Afterwards, everyone gets together again and the oke with the money shows everyone what he spent (presents the financial statement) and the group decides (has an AGM) what to do with what's left - usually buying more dop. Lekker.

(Puts on his serious hat)

This club has grown from a group of less than thirty riders to over 300 people.
The rides that everyone (the Committee included!) likes to go on don't just happen. They are recce'd, evaluated for safety, accommodation found, backup vehicles arranged... etc. etc. etc. When the members go out on the ride, very few think of what went into arranging it...! If your bike breaks down and it gets loaded up onto the Club's trailer and you get taken along by the backup vehicle, that was all organised in advance by somebody...

You can't walk into Jet stores or Edgars and buy the club regalia that we wear. Somebody designed it, obtained quotes and ordered it, paid for it to be made, delivered and that is why you can buy it in the Club shop, staffed by committee members.

The fact that there is this forum for people to post on is a result of work by the Committee. It didn't just appear one day.

All of this takes money, organising and people to do this. The people who do it are all unpaid. They give many hours of their free time to the Club in order to do the many little tasks that are necessary for all the others to just fill up and ride. So, all the rules, the Constitution, the Committee and all the other 'unnecessary' stuff comes about.

The constitution says what the members expect the elected committee to do in with the money they give them so that they can just put in petrol and ride.
Imagine that in the 'no rules, no committee' club went off for a ride and the oke with the kitty decided to take his 'flossie' to the fliek instead and spent the okes money. What would they do? Now multiply the number of people in the group by ten and the chance of differences increases a hundredfold.


Our present constitution makes provision for an 'Appeal Board' - in case the Committee decides that somebody must be thrown out of the Club (it has not happened yet) and that person thinks they were unfair...

"4.7.5 Any Club member who has been suspended or expelled shall have the right to appeal against the decision of the Committee and shall appear before an Appeal Body, which will be constituted for this purpose.
4.7.6 The Appeal Body will comprise the Chairman and two longstanding Club members.
4.7.7 The longstanding Club members shall not be Committee members and shall be elected at a special meeting of the Committee.
4.7.8 The Chairman shall not have a casting vote. The decision of the Appeal Body shall be final and binding. "

So - where to now?

I suggest that this Appeal Body be changed into a "Peer Review Panel" with the purpose of being called together only as and when required to advise the Committee, mediate on any conflict within any Club structure and to solve the problem without it becoming a problem to the Club at large. That way, the members can get on with their riding without having to bother about such issues.

At the moment, such a dispute resolution mechanism does not exist in the Club Constitution.
As a result, ad hoc arrangements have to be made in the event of conflict, rumours can spread and division can be created.

Lets just set up such an advisory body of people the members respect and let the Committee get on with running the Club's affairs calmly and correctly...
...so that the members can fill up and ride... [b]

In our company we are currently embarking on a values-based company approach. We've only started with this and I am not expert on the topic either. Heck, I don't even know if it makes a lot of sense on a club level.

But I see the value in it. If everyone lives by the core values of the company (or club in this instance), there are so many benefits that make special committees and the like really obsolete.

Our company's values are (in no specific order):

Integrity - keep your promises, do the right thing, walk the talk, open communication
Accountability - don't procrastinate and don't blame, become part of the solution, provide honest feedback, take action
Growing people - invest time, create opportunities, mutual responsibility
Awesome service - do what you need to, and a little more, approachable, accessible
Teamwork - embrace diversity, trust, collaborate across boundaries and not limited by ego's
Innovation - challenge the status quo, learn from mistakes, try new things

I guess what I understand from Drix's message is that people who voluntary flock together because of a shared passion in their hearts do not find much value in policy/procedure/rules/regulations. In all honesty, their behavior based on their values do not require this.

Yep, it's perhaps viewed in a very new age sort of way and makes some people's neck hairs stand up, but I believe that if you let your decisions and actions be guided by your values, you don't need special committees to refer stuff to.

This poll is now closed.