At what age are they responsible?

Your beautiful teenage daughter approaches you: "Ma, so many of my friends have Pasola's (or similar). Can i have one?"

Being a biker and knowing all the dangers out there, what would your response be?
Do you give in or would you wait till they're 18 and rather buy her a safe entry level car?

My policy. Let she work and pay for it herself, not a loan but with cash.

Then she will have responsibility and appreciation

My daughter used to go to school on hers for std9 and matric.

Need to be aware of the dangers.


...but then again - at the time I did not ride a bike - maybe my opinion would be different now if she was in school still.

A subject over which my decisions were widely criticized from certain corners......

What would the “responsible” answer from the next door neighbour or the “tannie oppie hoek” be?

So clearly like it was yesterday I still remember the answer to me at that stage.........and unfortunately also to this day, I remember how I felt about the answer.

The next person or the reasonable man/woman test?.......Well let’s face it, we – bikers or motorcyclists if you want – are not exactly mainstream. What reasonable man would see the sense in riding from Pretoria to Dullstroom via Lydenburg to have breakfast only to return to Pretoria afterwards – a round trip of more than 600km???

I maybe want to oversimplify things but my take on it was that it is should be their decision to want to ride or not. I know, I know, locomotive and carts and all that.....in defence I did deliver the normal speech about all possible (and impossible) the dangers etc, etc

BUT and this were non-negotiable preconditions:

If they decide to ride, the following will apply:
- They must at least do the introductory course at the BMW Rider Academy first.
- It must be followed fairly shortly by the Proficiency course at the same institute
- No proper protective clothing, no riding.
- Always ride in such a fashion to ride again tomorrow.

Will all this prevent an accident? Probably not but at least they will have a fighting change “out there” on the road.

And then just to confuse me.......after spending a lot of time with our youngest concentrating on safety aspects while in motion like escape routes for example, she was ran over by a car while stationary at an intersection on her bike........

Looking back today on the last few years during which the whole family was biking........I’m happy and satisfied with the decisions made. Actually I’m more than happy because I know that they are far better equipped to deal with biking in general and more specifically emergency situations than many a biker out there who never had formal training. Will I feel the same way if any of them are seriously injured or killed in a bike accident? I honestly don’t know and I can only trust that it will never come to that.

The final verdict from this side - Yes I will and I did allow them to ride subject to a few buts

As for your direct question in the heading..........I believe if you are good enough, then you are old enough and not judged on perceptions but on measurable aspects.

Few questions - how far will she be travelling and which routes will be followed. Tend to agree with all JR said above. We bike - we cannot actually not agree to allow our children the same freedom and pleasure. Why not rather buy a 125cc bike - more "power" than the pasola and can mover better through traffic.

Sommige lewensvrae in moeilik – sommige meer ernstig, ander minder:

Moet daar weeshuise in ‘n samelewing wees?

Moet kinders vir aanneming gegee word?

Mag ons kinders motorfiets/bromponies ry?

Waaraan kan ons ons kinders blootstel? Behoort mens “Die Huisgenoot/You” in jou huis toe te laat??

Ons kan ad infinitum vrae vra en alte dikwels is die antwoord doodeenvoudig:

Ons weet nie vooraf watter “reg” is “reg” nie!

Ek luister so ‘n paar maande gelede na ‘n laatnag inbelprogram oor die radio. Die onderwerp handel so min of meer oor gevare op die paaie en motorfietse kom ook onder bespreking. Ongeveer twee uur die nag bel ‘n pa in en se hy wil graag sy storie vertel.

Hy se na sy seun gematrikuleer het, het die kind hom gesmeek om ‘n motorfiets. Sy antwoord aan die seun was dat hy slegs “oor sy (pa se) dooie liggaam” ‘n motorfiets sal kan besit. Hy sal dit nooit toelaat nie. Die seun was baie hartseer daaroor en om te kompenseer het sy pa vir hom ‘n splinternuwe karretjie gaan koop.

Twee weke daarna was die seun in ‘n ernstige motorongeluk met die nuwe motor en is op slag dood.

Die pa se laaste woorde in ‘n gebroke stem oor die radio was dat dit nou al ‘n paar jaar gelede gebeur het en dat hy homself nou nog nie kan vergewe omdat hy nie maar die motorfiets gekoop het nie.

Dan het sy kind nog gelewe, glo hy...........

So, ja, watter “reg” is “reg”? Ons weet nie regtig nie! Staan dus sommer net een oggend vroeg op en doen wat jou “gut feeling” vir jou se. As die besluit op koop val, is daar mos goeie raad hierbo gegee.

And, let it be!

Yep.. laat mens dink né.

Thanks for all your inputs.

LeRoy Olivier wrote:.. We bike - we cannot actually not agree to allow our children the same freedom and pleasure.

There are a lot of things we do that we don’t allow our children to do . . .


JR, I totally agree with your non-negotiable preconditions, but

JR wrote: .. I believe if you are good enough, then you are old enough and not judged on perceptions but on measurable aspects.

When is one good enough?
Second thoughts, maybe it's not whether they're responsible or not - I don't know

Maybe I've already made up my mind.. ??

GSlady wrote:
When is one good enough?
Second thoughts, maybe it's not whether they're responsible or not - I don't know

Maybe I've already made up my mind.. ??

To complicate decisions even more – my personal experience .......................

When my daughter (now 27) hinted for a bike a couple of years ago, my answer was an uncompromising NO!

And, guess what happened? Approximately a year later, she arrived home early one evening with the new boyfriend.......as a pillion.....on a Ducatti!!

Eventually they simply do what they wanted to do in the first place.

GSlady wrote:When is one good enough? Second thoughts, maybe it's not whether they're responsible or not

Responsibility a somewhat harder to measure but it can be observed however bikes sometimes tend to bring out the irresponsible side of us. I think it is more important to realise and understand what you are dealing with.

Let me try and answer in the extreme with specific reference to bikes - a 18/19 year old on a 1000cc Superbike.

the basics like road signs and rules of the road go without saying

When....

- you understand and show utter respect for the unbelievable power you are dealing with
- your skill level match the bike
- your riding style is defensive with the key aspect anticipation
- you demonstrate respect to other road users at all times
- you come to realise that although you feel the most powerful vehicle on the road (probably true) you are also the most vulnerable being the smallest with the lowest level of protection

.......then you are probably good enough irrespective of age

obviously one just don’t “arrive” at all of the above.........there is a ladder to be climb and to start with formal training and a smaller bike is a good departure point.

Overseas, some countries have a "provisional licence" for larger machines - typically 600cc or 50Kw or whatever.
I think the F650 and the G650 fit in this class.
You must ride two years without an accident or traffic offence to get a full licence.

But that doesn't address the most important issue - rider attitude.
Some people will NEVER have the right attitude to ride a motorcycle in safety.
If the brain doesn't moderate the right wrist, then the wrong circumstances will result in tragedy.

The same applies to the right foot in a car.
I take my daughter on the bike whenever she asks to get her used to 'good riding habits'.
Banning riding only increases the attraction to ride behind one's back.
But I have told her if she finds a boyfriend that rides a bike, it had better be a GS...not a superbike!
(Sorry, K-factor!)

This week I had a knee operation.
In the bed across from me was a man who also used to ride bikes.
He had a Honda Superbike and later bought a GS.
Riding the GS more and more, he decided to sell the Superbike.
Then he also decided to take it for one last ride....

That was his last ride.
He's been lying there in traction since May, hopeful that his pelvis will knit well enough for a hip transplant to replace his broken femur.
He knows his riding days are over and he knows he was (ir)responsible.
He keeps his legal practice going from his hospital bed and he is cheerful but disappointed in himself in taking his real pleasure away from himself.
A momentary lack of attention, too much speed coming up onto traffic and that unsignalling turning car cuts off your path...biking goodbye.
It could have been biker goodbye.

It's all in the mind - a matter of attitude, attention and application - skills learned at track training and on the road.
Brain over Brawn.
Mind over Muscle.
Ohh...but that rush from speed is so seductive!
Lets all ride safe out there...!

PS: When I bought my R80/7 at the age of 40, my son said:
"Gee dad, that's nice...when can I get a bike?"
My answer was "When you turn 40!"
At the time, it was the right answer - he was 14.
Now he's 29, married with a kid and he's past the first testosterone-driven urge to go biking.
Yes, he has ridden bikes on the farm where he lived for a while (and my own bike without me knowing, but that's another story!)

Richard H wrote:.......But I have told her if she finds a boyfriend that rides a bike, it had better be a GS...not a superbike! (Sorry, K-factor!).........

For the record, I will be the first to advice against taking a pillion on a Superbike. It was simply never designed for that nor is it particular pillion friendly……a bit like hooking a Venter trailer behind your Ferrari……

But we have just about called out all the city’s fire trucks to put out the 10 burning leaves in the backyard here, haven’t we?

The question was regarding a scooter where the bulk of riding will take place at around 40 to 50km/h. If you are therefore happy to allow a child (or in this case a young lady) on the road with a bicycle, then the decision to replace the bicycle with a scooter should be a fairly straight forward one (and one that can be beneficial to both parties )…….a scooter is just that much safer because by local law, you are forced to wear a crash helmet riding it.

....I'm almost sounding like the child trying to convince the parent now......but the argument has its merrits

JR wrote: But we have just about called out all the city’s fire trucks to put out the 10 burning leaves in the backyard here, haven’t we?

Please keep the fire trucks rolling!

For relative newcomers like me, all the comments/advise here (excluding my own musings, of course!) are exceptionally informative.
This is what makes this forum so valuable and functional.