German engineering vs japanese superbikes

The guys with these Japanese pocket rockets find our BMW riders ridicules. They reckon we spend too much money on slow bikes. How can we enjoy biking if we could not even hit the 300km/h mark? It’s just a pity that they start panicking when their missiles reaches 20 000km. would you buy a 13000rpm engine with 50 000km on? I doubt it, but I will true as bob buy a BMW with that mileage. With BMW's K1200S and soon to be K1300s on the streets, big Japanese icons are fighting an uphill battle. I will still buy the so called high performer such as the K1200S second hand. As we all know, the biggest enemy to any engine is high revs, but BMW still manage to make Japanese power with lower revs, by designing an intelligent cylinder head and to obtain torque from low revs they designed a hexagonally shaped exhaust system. they generate 130kw at only 9000 RPM. a top speed of around 300km/h and 0-100km/h of 3.02 sec. and the best part of all, the engines are built to last. So bring on your Jap rocket.

Well, one of the reasons I bought a BMW, simply because BMW make a bike that lasts engine wise.

I suppose we all buy what appeals to us. These superbikers have only one thing in mind and that is speed. Riding through beautiful parts of the country and enjoying the scenery while doing so is not high on their list of priorities. It is also unfair to generalise but I think this applies to 90% of them. I enjoy every minute I spend on my bike and speed is of no importance to me. I'd rather drive slower, giving me more opportunity to enjoy the surroundings. I'll stick to what I love and this includes the "slow" GS

Although I would not buy a 2nd hand Jap superbike, I must say I have the greatest of respect for the Jap engines. If you have been at a bike rally and see how some guys keep their bikes at the rev limiter all weekend, and then on Sunday take the long road back home, you cannot but have respect for the Jap engine engineering. Sure, it will probably not make 50,000 kays but just the mere fact that it does not blow apart is amazing. At the end of the day it is horses for courses. I will any day have a Jap superbike and my beemer, and use them depending on my mood or the circumstances

Welcome to the forum Paulnel.

Ok, no prices to the members who placed a bet that I would respond to this post

I’m one of those on a Jap rocket and I don’t find BM riders ridiculous…….why? .......cause I’m a Beemer man myself (primarily).

Your tongue in the cheek question about 300km/h……….indeed and unquestionable most of the enjoyment is below 200 in acceleration and handling but it’s soooooo nice to hit that mystical mark every once in a while – on the speedo anyway – under the right conditions and on a suitable road…….or so I’m told.

Words can not describe the feeling of 0-100 in 2.8 sec (claimed time for the K1200S) However, contrary to popular belief, only a few bikes – keyword is few here – are capable of a “true” GPS speed of 300. The GPS top speed of a standard K1200S is around the 273 mark which would be an indicated 290/5. Allegedly, with a few changes, 283 have been GPS measured before………but maybe that is just a myth.

Imo the reliability differences between German and Jap are definitely a myth – with reference to current generation BM’s anyway.

In reality, the Japanese Superbikes – and there are only 4 of them ie. the GSXR1000, CBR1000RR, R1 and the ZX10, will all outrun the K12 and I suspect the K13 on top end, albeit only by a few bike lengths, but we are comparing apples with pears here. There are other more direct (and faster) competition in the Hypersport league like the Hyabusa and the ZX14 but - again imo - they are not really in the same class as the K1200S…..a topic for another discussion though.

Long and the short……..the K12S is very fast for a big bike and as a package, unmatched by the competition.

If we start talking BMW S1000RR……..now that’s a different ball game altogether. The traditional BM owner might feel BMW is now venturing on terrain where they should not go – stick to being unique, stay European. I’m afraid in the end it’s all a matter of economics. If they want a share of that market, they have to take on the Japs on their own turf - which in itself is an enormous mountain to climb because they are very good in what they do with exceptional products ..........I for one am ecstatic about their move.

Given their history in motor sport, I would say it’s about time the blue roundel produce a motorcycle which will not only be able to match the competition with reference to outright performance but a motorcycle capable of setting a bench mark (I hope)

exciting times ahead and I’ll echo your heading…..with a slight alteration…….

German Superbike vs Japanese/Italian Superbikes……….methinks (really hope) the guys from Bavaria are ready for the challenge

ps. We have a Japanese Superbike in the stable with more than 20 000km and we are not panicking. Fact is, the Beemer/s with the same mileage has been to “hospital” far more times than it’s Honda colleague.

Reliability issues with Japanese superbikes is a myth that I think has been perpetuated far too long.

Most individuals looking for a 2nd hand bike will balk at a superbike (SB) with high kilometers, thinking that it has obviously been ridden to death. However, I believe one should be more cautious of the SB with the lower kilometers especially if it is a few years old. Those are the bikes that are ridden sparingly but when ridden are ridden hard. Engines are made to work, not stand around for months at an end and then be blasted to oblivion.

I had a CBR 400 which was a grey import SB and I put over a 100 000 km on it. I had no issues in that time except normal servicing. It met its end when a drunk driver skipped a traffic light and sent me and the bike to the hospital. I could be saved but not the bike.

So, I would disagree with your statement about Jap SB. This is not based solely on my experience but those of quite a few people I know personally and others I know of. In the top segment of the market where these bikes live, you are getting a really good product that is well designed for its intended purpose.

SB are made to be ridden hard, you may have more issues with a bike that was designed for moderately hard riding, but more distance focussed, that has indeed been ridden hard. I would be careful of such a machine.

Morpheus

MadnohB

Is it true that there is a gentleman’s agreement among the Japanese manufacturers to limit production bikes up to 300 kph.?

Using a GPS is to measure top speed is probably the best method, but there are heaps of variables with a GPS and unless you are used to using them then it would not be hard to mess up the reading. There are those rare anomalies on a GPS where it has briefly lost a signal and you end up doing apparently wild speeds.

This brings to mind Mark Twain's observation:
"A man who owns two watches never knows what time it is."

wingman wrote:......Is it true that there is a gentleman’s agreement among the Japanese manufacturers to limit production bikes up to 300 kph.?.....

no it's not the case. However, they did agree to "only" show a maximum indicated speed of 299km/h. They would like us to believe that they are limiting at 300 though.......at that speed, resistance is the biiiiiig enemy which overcomes power

wingman wrote:......but there are heaps of variables with a GPS...............

true, but your commercially available GPS is still 5 to 10% more accurate than the bike's instruments. At lower speeds the margin is slightly less

[quote="MadnohB"]
...... but it’s soooooo nice to hit that mystical mark every once in a while – on the speedo anyway – under the right conditions and on a suitable road…….or so I’m told.

Good recovery!!

Personally - i think Jamie has said all there is to say on this topic. Always find his answers intersting to read as it is based on specs and facts.

But - we ride what we are compfortable with and that meets our needs - depending on what that is. I was a Honda fan since time immemorial and bought my first Beemer through a twist of fate.

I will always be a Honda fan - but my first choice now will always be the Beemer (LT) as it now meets my needs.

Of the 16 bikes I had 13 were Jap bikes. Of the 13 bikes only one a Suzuki GS 1000 EN (1980) had a small problem, the battery packed up in the first few months and was replaced with a smile by Suzuki. None of the others had problems. I did ride them hard, which is good for it as there is permanent load on the motor.
I had 3 BMWs. The only problems I had was with the GT. The light had a earth problem and the water sensor gave problems and both was replaced under warrentee.
I must say the Jap pocket rockets do appear very nice, but my hands and wrists can not handle the pressure of the forward position.
Speed to me is relevant to the condition of the ride. I once had the situation with the GT were I felt safe at 80 Km/h on an open stretch with high wind.
Imo there is a place for both and I like them both (Jap and German)