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New Speed Cameras & Other Issues

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New Speed Cameras & Other Issues Empty New Speed Cameras & Other Issues

Post by Admin on 4th June 2009, 18:03

Fifteen new speed cameras have been set up in and around the Gauteng area, where GAUTRAIN construction is taking place.
Where speeds have been reduced from 120kph to 80kph, there is a ZERO TOLERANCE factor.
NO ADMISSION OF GUILT – and fines are between R8000 and R15000.
You will HAVE TO APPEAR IN COURT.

Seems we have to keep to the speed limit!?


Last edited by Admin on 13th July 2009, 17:59; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Marnus on 4th June 2009, 18:18

Yikes... the fines are so high, it sounds like an urban myth! Since when has this been the case? Just want to know if I should flee the country Cool
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 4th June 2009, 18:21

No - just take note. One way to prove it - do 90 in any of those areas and report back to the forum.
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Post by Andre on 5th June 2009, 06:45

I have downloaded the latest Garmap Hazards and these camaras are not on there yet. I have not seen any of them myself either on the N1 between Crown and the N14, so we will have to wait and see. Very Happy
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 5th June 2009, 10:01

Noted - but what must be said here - the surveilance cameras on the Ben Schoeman between JHB en Pret can be used for speed law enforcement. So any of those cameras can be activated to do this. Personally - i wont take the chance.
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 17th June 2009, 17:50

Earliet today i spoke to one of the Techs at Bavaria - these speedcameras are in fact active and the speedfines are very high - he has a speedfine of R5000 and must appear in court for this.
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Post by Sias on 18th June 2009, 09:28

That is WAY over the top in my opinion! Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 18th June 2009, 22:04

Yes - apparently you dont have a choice to pay the fine - part of the summons is a court appearance - that is not negotiable. Lekker ??? ne.
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Post by Sias on 19th June 2009, 09:53

Belaglik! Strenger reels vir spoedoortreders as moordenaars!? Rolling Eyes
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Post by Mud Pooh-bah on 19th June 2009, 10:32

Misdaad begin altyd klein. Ek is 'n groot voorstander dat die klein jakkalsies eers moet uitgesorteer word voor die groot goggas sal vrek. Daar is in my boek nie klein sondetjies nie. (En glo my ek oortree vele van hulle ongelukkig) Die tipiese Pretorianer wat nie sy flikkerligte gebruik nie (en glo my daar is &^%&^&(% baie van hulle) kan deur sy slapgatgeit ook 'n lewe neem. Ons wil almal graag kla oor misdaad maar sodra daar iets is wat dit vir ons ongerieflik maak, dan is dit ook nie meer goed nie.

In die laat 80's en vroee 90's was New York stad 'n misdaad nagmerrie. Rudolph Giuliani het dit omgeswaai deur te begin fokus op die klein goedjies - Parkering, rooi ligte lisensiering, spoed, vullis, rommelstrooi ens. Binne 10 jaar het die misdaad syfers vir New York drasties afgeneem.

Die mammas en pappas wat so oor die spoedgrens ry, nie flikkers gebruik nie ens moet hulself dalk afvra: Wat is hulle besig om hulle kinders te leer??

As die owerhede meer mense begin vasvat op die klein goedjies, sal dit in my opinie baie beter begin gaan met ons land.

So onthou bietjie dat daai "wettige" nommerplaat, die spoedgrens, praat op die selfoon, papier by die ruit uitgooi ens, ens alles deel uitmaak van ons land se misdaad probleem. As ons self, nie die wet kan nakom nie, moet ons nie kla as ander, met 'n mindere vermoe om goed en sleg te onderskei, dit ook doen nie. Hulle volg maar net die voorbeeld wat ons stel!!!

Weereens my 2c oningeligte opinie...
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Post by Corlia on 19th June 2009, 12:19

Ek neem aan jy voel heel sterk oor hierdie onderwerp.... Shocked
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Post by Mud Pooh-bah on 19th June 2009, 12:58

Ek voel altyd sterk Basketball

Ja dit maak my nogal die "£"%£ in as die %$%"% mense altyd kla maar by die volgende robot is hy te goed om sy flikker te gebruik, terwyl hy oor die rooi lig ry omdat hy 'n nommer probeer opsoek op sy alternatiewe selfoon, terwyl op sy primere selfoon praat. Ek word ten minste twee keer 'n week amper deur sulke persone raak gery. En ongelukkig beinvloed dit my gemoedstoestand taamlik negatief as mense my amper doodry.... (Weet nog nie hoe my gemoedtoestand sal wees as hulle slaag nie Laughing)

Dan word daar by die volgende plek gestop en vertel hoe swak die taxi's ry en hoe erg misdaad is. So miskien moet ons dalk net ons aandeel in die probleem begin erken. En ek is ongelukkig ook skuldig Embarassed


Last edited by Mud Pooh-bah on 19th June 2009, 15:11; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Sias on 19th June 2009, 14:03

Dit is nogal 'n inspirerende mening! What a Face
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Post by Happy-go-lucky on 19th June 2009, 15:20

I was down the N1 between Jhb and Pta last Saturday and I did not see any additional cameras, thus they must be using the surveillance cameras for speed trapping, taking the time between two cameras.
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Post by 1150 adventure on 20th June 2009, 01:08

Yo Muddy new respect, I agree with everything that you have said on this subject. The only problem perhaps is that we dont have the NYPD that the good mayor had to tackle the problem. Also I dont think he was dealing with such an arrogant nation

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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 20th June 2009, 17:01

I agree with all the above points made. However i dont think we can equate the situation in SA with that in the USA (NY). We have a complete different population demography here, with a complete different mindset.

Upping the road fines will not decrease the general crime rate and the general predisposition toward violent crimes in SA. Once again lets focus on what we can sort out - namely speeding, and use that as a smoke sceen behind which to hide our ineptitude to sort out the true crime issue in SA. The quick fix.
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Post by Richard H on 20th June 2009, 17:44

No, not quick fix...

...the correct political term is 'rapid results'...!
Cool
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 22nd June 2009, 13:00

Same bulshit - meaning you focus on whatever is politically correct and can score you the most browny points.
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Post by Dana on 1st July 2009, 14:11

I suppose sticking to the speed limits and rules of the roads will make you feel better but I agree that it will not be the starting point in reducing crime.

Being in the crime fighting industry for over 20 years, I learned that you need a number of elements present to reduce crime and to maintain low crime levels.

The most important factor in addressing crime is creating an environment in which the risk for a perpetrator of being caught is a consistently highly probability with severe penalties following apprehension.

This can only be achieved by an effective law enforcement and criminal justice system. To attain these systems the country is in need of a strong political will to address crime effectively.

None of these high level elements are present in our current society (have a really objective and good look at the moral fiber of our current leadership and how it has cascaded down to society) and therefore crime will continue to be unmanageable.

I noted Gulliani’s successes and think he is a good political leader but lots of the measures he implemented would have been implemented in any event without his contribution as these systems were in the process of being developed prior to his reign. (If the Gautrain starts running tomorrow, political leadership at that time will probably claim that they delivered affordable transport to the people as promised and it is due to there hard work, while it has been in planning years ago).

I do not wish to discourage the good intentions of obeying traffic rules, but I would like the demonstrate the reality crime in our country.
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Post by Mud Pooh-bah on 1st July 2009, 17:41

Can somebody then using all these "we are special" and "not in New York"reasons, tell me why the crime rate in Mozambique and Botswana is so much lower than in South Africa?? Is it not maybe because they have a system in place that eliminate the small crimes? Or do the people of Mozambique get transformed into criminals once they cross the SA borders?

Don't you think an effective law enforcement system and criminal justice system should start with the small things??

Catching people not obeying rules of the road effectively is one of several effective screening methods to check licence validity, vehicle road worthiness and driver crime record. Thus by eliminating illegal number plates and illegal drivers we can start to build a system that will at least give the correct details if you spot a vehicle's number plates at a crime scene.

And using this logic we can systematically eliminate the serious crimes. But unfortunately you need to start with the small and basic stuff.

Also I do believe that processes and systems are not implemented automatically. It takes good leadership, planning and buy-in before it happens. I have been involved in several of these new systems being implemented and I believe the human individuals "resistance to change" and "not invented by me" factors can create havoc. Countering these normal human actions during implementation is where the true test of leadership lies.
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Post by Dana on 2nd July 2009, 11:23

The leadership in both Mozambique and Botswana is focused on prosperity for their respective countries at large while in our case leadership is more focused on self enrichment.

At the time the Mozambican leadership was serving their own self interests, things also did not go well in that country. Only after being economically forced to do so, they started to adopt and implement good governance policies as this was closely monitored by donating countries that are contributing to the rebuilding of Mozambique.

Botswana’s leadership always placed a high premium on the country’s growth/prosperity and has a no nonsense approach to crime. They are also characterized by being one of the few African states without much internal conflict. Their law enforcement and criminal justice system (with strong influences from the former British South African Police) is effective and consistent. (remember the woman hanged for murder a few years ago amidst international pressures against the death penalty) You simply have to think twice before committing murder or any crime for that matter in Botswana.

In comparison, our leadership focus on self enrichment i.e. our President is covered in a dust of controversy relating to corruption charges while his brother-in-arms is released from prison due to “ill health”

When the Heath Commission started to uncover the arms deal corruption the response by our leaders was not to enhance the commission’s powers of the unit to get to the bottom of things but rather to close the unit. Subsequently the unit currently dealing with these corruption charges (Scorpions) is also being closed.

Our National Police Commissioner admitted being friends with one of the world’s most wanted members of the Cosa Nostra. The Head of Ekhuruleni Metro Police, Mcbride, is also a highly questionable individual and numerous procurement irregularities have been highlighted by the Auditor General concerning the Head of Tshwane Metro Police Commissioner Mutle.

Currently there is much controversy between Lennit Max, the MEC for Safety and Security in the Western Cape and his Provincial Commissioner about the destroying of evidence and police cover ups.

We have highly questionable Judges in our justice system, drunk ones, racist ones, corrupt ones ect.

This is not an all exhaustive synopsis of our current state of affairs and I am highlighting only but a few matters.


I agree with the concept that by addressing small crimes it will result into reducing bigger crimes but it takes leadership who wish for society to prosper to implement. In fact, I think our crime is so out of hand that any crime fighting strategy will have an impact provided it is properly implemented by leadership who place the country’s interest first.

As I’ve said, if the moral fiber of our entire leadership is of such poor quality it is bound to cascade to civil service and society at large. This is why society supports the current leadership. Our country is in dire need of social re-engineering and perhaps you are correct in that sense that by encouraging each other to do the right things i.e obeying traffic rules may just be the beginning of such social re-engineering. I think you have a sound argument in that sense.
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Post by Mud Pooh-bah on 3rd July 2009, 14:48

Good post Dana. cheers

I totally agree that we need strong leadership with no skeletons in the closet. Unfortunately our present leadership had to fund the "struggle" during the previous regime using all kinds of less than legal operations. Unfortunately these practises and operations has not stopped today and the dues must still be paid off. Our Leadership probably feels that they are just catching up, due to losses suffered during the struggle. They will therefore be in self-enrichment mode until the next generation takes over. Hopefully the next generation will not be in self-enrichment mode.

But that then poses the question: How many politicians end-up not being in self-enrichment mode?? Suspect
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Post by Richard H on 4th July 2009, 22:19

Mud Pooh-bah wrote:Good post Dana. cheers
How many politicians end-up not being in self-enrichment mode?? Suspect

In Italy, the average term of a government is under two years before the coalition collapses and another election takes place.
If you want to see self-enrichment look around there...! Shocked
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 6th July 2009, 16:53

Maybe we are looking at this wrongly - it is just another way of doing business - a complete new set of rules and issues.
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Post by loox on 7th July 2009, 11:16

Technicalities

In order for a fine to be valid whether it arrives in the mail or
it is given to you on the roadside, there are numerous rules and
regulations that have to be followed. These rules are specified by
the Traffic Department themselves and called Technical Standards.
In a precedent case in court a few years ago, a Judge determined
that if these standards are not followed then this by definition
introduces doubt as to the validity of the readings since the
equipment was not operated correctly which then makes the fine
invalid.

You will be surprised to know that is the norm of the Traffic
Department to operate their cameras not according to the standards
which then makes almost every fine they issue invalid. Some of the
standards include:


* There should be no object (eg, car, barriers, signs) within
50m of the radar/laser gun
* The equipment must be calibrated before, after and every one
hour while operating it, these calibration tests must be on site
and also brought to court on the trial date. (This normally never
happens and just with this method alone we get a lot of fines
cancelled)
* There can be no trapping within a certain distance of the
speed limit sign
* The operator must have attended a course in speed trapping as
well as have an SME certificate which you can demand to see.

There are many other standards listed in my Traffic Fines Toolkit
relating to all the different types of speed detection set ups that
I cannot go into here in this email, these include specific
standards for:


* Radar trapping
* Laser gun trapping
* Sensor Line trapping
* Unmanned cameras etc

The technicalities identified are then used when making
representations in respect of the fine either in writing or if
necessary in court. The process is simple:


1. You identify how you were trapped, whether it was a radar,
laser or sensor line device (Most trapping nowadays is laser, but
you still do get radar in the KZN region)
2. Use the Traffic Fines Toolkit Checklists to identify any flaw
or technicality in the fine because of not following the standards.
3. Go to the AARTO website (www.aarto.co.za) and fill Form 8
online, putting in the reason as per the checklists that you are
requesting the fine be cancelled, be polite but make it clear that
you are willing togo to court to defend yourself against this
matter since you believe you are innocent
4. In 90% of cases you will get a satisfactory response and the
fine will be totally cancelled
5. In the remaining 10% of cases you then have a choice to elect
to go to court or pay the fine. I would recommend going to court
because 90% of the remaining are cancelled there!

In conclusion, know that the invalidation of the fine will be based
on technicalities identified by the Traffic Authorities not
operating according to the Technical Standards. When you know these
standards and what to look for you can get the majority of your
fines cancelled because you will realise they are invalid.
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