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Post by JohanGT on 23rd August 2008, 19:18

It is true that speed plays a role in the death toll on our roads, but should this be something that our traffic department should spend all their time and resources on? After all, if we all walked or used bicycles, there would be no deaths on our roads - so I guess there is something to be said for "Speed Kills".

This is exactly what people warned against when Henry Ford came up with the first horse-less carriage. But did we listen? Noooo! We were also warned against the radio, TV and cellular phones - all the dangerous radio waves etc. Did we learn? Nooooo!

But the world did move on regardless of all these warnings.

For those of use who have accepted the horseless carriage as a mode of transport, the radio, the TV and the cellular phones and who understand why things are going at a faster pace than in the days of horses and carriages, we can see other things that are responsible for the high death tolls on our roads:
pig People who are careless / brainless and do not understand that their actions are causing other people hurt and suffering. The taxi who hit Braam is only one example.
drunken People who have had too much to drink
affraid The blue-light hooligans that race down a crowded street because..... well, because
Evil or Very Mad Because the Metro squad are not addressing these problems but using the "Speed Kills" slogan in order to justify their actions, people driving on our highways are getting more angry by the day. The amount of anger within people are quite scary. On our way from Durban to Johannesburg we saw a person passing a huge truck with a trailer with his Uno and then swerve in front of the truck while applying his brakes. What is this person thinking? Question

Our traffic department will have to stop with their money collection and start acting like law enforcement agents. My problem is that I do not have confidence that there is actually sufficient intelligence in this organization that can handle this very dangerous increase of angry drivers on our streets. If this dangerous tendency is not going to stop, we will be seeing many more deaths on our roads.
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Post by DaveS on 23rd August 2008, 23:58

Just wish the authorities would spend half as much effort on crime as they do on trying to catch people speeding!!

Imagine how low the crime levels would be then.

Latest law legislated recently - your licence will be suspended if you exceed the speed limit by more than 30km/h in an urban area and 40km/h in rural areas. Evil or Very Mad

Pity it does not stop the robberies and murders that occur on a daily basis!! Evil or Very Mad

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Post by Andre on 24th August 2008, 11:31

My 2c worth is that speed makes the seriousness of an accident higher and therefore can kill. However, it is all relative. Some vehicles are deathtraps at 80 kph or less, some safe at 160 kph or more. So what is the definition of "Speed"Question Then we have the competence of the drivers. Like we always say, ride within your capability. This goes equally for cars. Know your vehicles limitations, know your own limitations and most of all, be considerate and patient. A lack of these are really what kills Exclamation
If cops start removing non roadworthy vehicles and incompetent, dangerous drivers, that take chances, off our roads instead of focussing on speed, we will start see-ing a reduction in the carnage on our roads. Unfortunately it is not as lucrative for the Xmas bonus as speed traps and much harder work Exclamation
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Post by Joe on 25th August 2008, 11:46

Rejuvenated wrote:

Latest law legislated recently - your licence will be suspended if you exceed the speed limit by more than 30km/h in an urban area and 40km/h in rural areas. Evil or Very Mad


If this is enforced there will be plenty of unlicenced people riding around, reckon I would've lost my licence a few times yesterday morning in the Hekpoort/Kromdraai region .. Embarassed
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 25th August 2008, 14:15

I have looked at the legistlation, and is much more complicated than what has been said above. I have sent the basic summary of it to Dani. Might be a good idee to post it on the forum.

Every licensee will have 12 points at the beginning of the year - every transgression will result in a fine & demerit points deducted off your license. And the tail of woe goes on. Depending on the transgression the demerit points increase/decrease.

The traffic authorities are presently testing the same demerit system used in Autralie and America, in Pretoria. Should it be succesfull here - it will be deployed country wide.
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Post by DaveS on 25th August 2008, 15:46

Leroy - this is not what I was referring to. What I am referring to was reported on News24 about a week ago.

Loss of licence apparently and no option of points being lost if those limits are exceeded.

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Post by Andre on 25th August 2008, 21:14

Joe wrote:
Rejuvenated wrote:

Latest law legislated recently - your licence will be suspended if you exceed the speed limit by more than 30km/h in an urban area and 40km/h in rural areas. Evil or Very Mad


If this is enforced there will be plenty of unlicenced people riding around, reckon I would've lost my licence a few times yesterday morning in the Hekpoort/Kromdraai region .. Embarassed
The fascinating thing about South Africa is that we have some of the best laws but no way to enforce them. With the number of illegal licences in circulation I cannot see that the points system will work. It is just a matter of time before drivers will "buy" back their credits or get their licences re-instated.
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Post by DaveS on 25th August 2008, 21:49

Probably find more people riding without plates.

Fine for no plate - R200.00 and to get bike out of pount about R300.00.

Rather cheap if they catch you - better than losing your licence.

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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 25th August 2008, 22:03

Wont work either - the demerit points & fine for riding without your number plate is both rather stiff. Have just sent you the summary that i sent Dani.
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Post by Henk on 26th August 2008, 06:15

Friend of mine was caught this weekend R1300 Doing 103 in 60 zone. Problem is not just speeding. Yes speed is a problem. If you look at how many people dont stop at a red light it is scary. Their excuse is that they are afraid of being hijacked. Even the metro just drive over red lights. This weekend on the R104 to Bronkhorstspruit the Police in a Kombi just pushed me of the road. And then I will rather not go into bribery and corruption
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Post by Rooikat on 26th August 2008, 13:33

This makes me think of 2 other scenario's:

They say (no I don't know who "they" are):

10% of vehicle accidents are caused by drunk drivers. Does this mean that 90% are caused by sober drivers. Razz

Most vehicle accidents are caused by a traffic violation. The rest are caused by what Question Question Rolling Eyes
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Post by DaveS on 26th August 2008, 14:06

Rooikat wrote:This makes me think of 2 other scenario's:

They say (no I don't know who "they" are):

10% of vehicle accidents are caused by drunk drivers. Does this mean that 90% are caused by sober drivers. Razz

Most vehicle accidents are caused by a traffic violation. The rest are caused by what Question Question Rolling Eyes

Just over 30% caused by pedestrians - get them off the roads and figures improve dramatically. Now they say cars must look out for pedestrians - even on freeways!! Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil

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Post by Henk on 26th August 2008, 18:26

Shocked I am sure we can find plenty of ways that the laws (on roads) are broken. The big thing is for the metro to start doing their jobs. Then again I will be the first to complain if I get caught : Question

We should always remember statistic [sp?] is a question of who interprets it
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Post by DaveS on 26th August 2008, 20:33

as they say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Must admit - lately I have seen lots of metro's on the highways pulling off cars...

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Post by Joe on 27th August 2008, 06:45

Henk wrote:

We should always remember statistic [sp?] is a question of who interprets it

87,44% of statistics are made up Wink
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Post by Andre on 27th August 2008, 06:49

Joe wrote:
Henk wrote:

We should always remember statistic [sp?] is a question of who interprets it

87,44% of statistics are made up Wink
That is very interesting Joe. What is your source Question I always knew that the saying "Lies, damn lies & Statistics" must have an origin based on some facts. Smile
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Post by JohanGT on 27th August 2008, 23:40

It is quite interesting to note that everybody knows that taxis cause a lot of accidents and definately a lot of frustrations but they are not caught as far as I can see. I guess it is because they are only driving recklessly and not speeding. confused

The "logical conclusion" must therefore be that taxis do not contribute to the carnage on our roads?!
scratch
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Post by DaveS on 28th August 2008, 08:46

JohanGT wrote:
The "logical conclusion" must therefore be that taxis do not contribute to the carnage on our roads?!
scratch

Absolutely not - we all know that all the problems are because of speeding - thats why they focus so much on it. I mean, who really believes it is because of the revenue generated? Rolling Eyes Cool

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Post by Richard H on 28th August 2008, 22:06

No, you are not completely accurate there, its actually 84,748% made up... Wink
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Post by Andre on 29th August 2008, 08:10

Richard H wrote:No, you are not completely accurate there, its actually 84,748% made up... Wink
I am still curious to know what the source of this is and what the conclusion is based on Exclamation
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Post by Richard H on 29th August 2008, 20:38

Rolling Eyes
These arguments are usually premised on the supposition that VOLUME overwhelms logical thought and the golden principle of BBB*
Sleep


*Bullsh#t Baffles Brains
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Post by JohanGT on 11th September 2008, 14:37

It is the same IQ that "decided" years ago that bulletin boards are not allowed on the open roads because it will distract the attention of the drivers. Hell, who needs to pay attention driving in Johannesburg or Pretoria!? confused
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Post by DaveS on 11th September 2008, 22:39

Me - in peak traffic on the bike.

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Post by Rooikat on 12th September 2008, 16:21

I read somewhere that an independent person evaluated our road situation, and the result was that our roads are 40% overloaded.

Do you think this means that the upgrades they are busy with at the moment, will reduce the percentage, or will it still be the same at the time when the upgrades are completed? scratch
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Post by LeRoy Olivier on 12th September 2008, 17:10

At the speed at which the upgrades are nor done we will have a negative growth to the averages.
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